Prof Kasim Waziri is a professor of law and presently in the Faculty of Law, University of Abuja. In this press interview with our correspondent, ABBANOBI -EKU ONYEKACHI, he among others says that the explosion in the number of private schools and hospitals in a third world country like Nigeria is the beginning of the collapse of such country. Excerpts.
Any developing country like ours, private schools and hospitals are taking places is a collapsed country.
Qtn: It is no more news that most Nigerians who can afford, send their children to study abroad, on your opinion, would you say that Nigerian universities are doing well?
Ans: Nigerian university was one of the best universities in Africa. When I was in the university, all the federal universities that I knew then, that did existed; the first and second generation universities, we had foreign students, including Europeans and Indians, not to talk of Africans from Niger, among others, due to richness and qualitative education in the universities.
But the Structural Adjustment Programme (SAP), introduced by the military head of state, Retired General Ibrahim Babangida, affected all other structures of Nigeria’s existence and education wasn’t an exception. And as such, it affected university education, because most of the structures were destroyed, salaries were diluted and that was the beginning of brain drain and what have you, and the successive governments couldn’t have the leaver to understand the problem and to know that the life wire of every country is about her education.
As the SAP was eating the universities, at state levels, basic education was collapsing. Most of the burden schools turned to day students, and most of the colleges of education that were very unique, also turned to day students, partly and what have you. It damaged, not only university, but education generally. Most of the problems we are having in Nigeria today is because of criminal neglect of education at all levels. As such, what is happening in the universities today is just like a fainted man, who is surviving on a drip and is how sad it is. If I am not 60, I would have left the system, because i do always ask myself, where should I be going at this age, may it is a cultural thing, I don’t know. Frankly, it is appalling.
Qtn: Having said that education is the foundation of everything, what then is the way forward?
Ans: The way forward is about the managers of the structure of governance in Nigeria, should think their ways. Our problem is attitudinal. It is not lack of money or lack of human resources, but attitudinal. The way and manner our managers of offices at the presidency, ministries, governance, states, local governments are carrying on governance, will not allow any meaningful development to be done in Nigeria.
This is the only country a road contract will be given and it will be reviewed for 29 years and as such, it tampers all other structures. The way forward is for those in authority to know that governance isn’t about riches, sirens, aides, working with security. Governance is thinking, living there with honour, not living there with opulence, housing abroad, village and City Centre. Until those attitudes are changed, we aren’t going anywhere. That is the way forward.
Qtn: Some believe that the emergence of many private schools and universities in Nigeria in recent years will go a long way to raise quality of education, while others believe that they aren’t only for the rich, but will reduce quality of education by using good results, to attract students. What is your take?
Ans: Any developing country like ours, where you see private schools and hospitals are taking places is the collapse of that country. All my age mates, from the presidency and ministers, were products of local education authority, community clinics, because government was responsible and responsive. The moment, a third world counter like ours, that should be struggling to develop, you live your primary, secondary and universities education to the private school, you have gone.
Qtn: Are you of the opinion that private schools be stopped?
Ans: The proliferation of universities in Nigeria is a crime against Nigeria. I am not saying that we don’t need more universities, but the way and manners it is done isn’t proper, because those who did it refused to have regard for the importance of education to keep our security, food security, development, participation in the committee of nations, didn’t know the importance of what education can do, and what have you. What they did about, it was a pedestal thinking to keep giving licenses to every Dick and Harry to own federal universities, when you refuse to develop your universities.
There is space for these universities to be developed to take more students, expand and what have you and give it ranking. They just released 1,000 ranking of Nigerian universities; it is appalling, including our forth generation universities, university college hospital. Saudi Arabia kings used to come to this hospital before. Is it supposed to improve or decline? The reason why ours is declining is because of poor management.
Qtn: It looks like students get better results like first class in private universities, why isn’t it so in government universities?
Ans: It is only in Nigeria that you see proliferation of first class, but not in other regions, including the rankings you have done, other universities in African, you know what is happening. I don’t have comments on this.
Qtn: Many people who sit or apply for courses in federal universities, say law, education, medicine, among others are usually denied admissions, due to limitation, as a result of quota system, among others, can you make a comment on that?
Ans: The word isn’t denying. You have to understand the workings of policies at the federal universities here. Let me tell you, all courses are regulated by the National University Commission (NUC) and professional courses, including law is regulated by professional bodies like, Council of Legal Education regulators, knowing our capacity, staff, faculty and structure strengths.
They give you quota and in that quota, you are supposed to admit, so that they too will be able to admit students at law school. As such, if you want to manage that quota, there must be rules in terms of quality of those you want to admit. As we can blame the governors, ministers and other public office holders, we have some obsolete vice chancellors that have no regard as if they are not a part of the system, who are abusing the admission quota, processes and what have you.
Qtn: Although it has been brought down from 18 to 16 year, but what is your take on the age limit for admission of students to universities in Nigeria?
Ans: I am 60 years old and I didn’t join primary school, until my hands
could touch my ear. I had to be seven years old before I joined primary school and there is a philosophy about age to education and mingling. The way and manners it is being politicized, because corruption has eaten deep into everybody. Education is a serious business. You don’t bring a 16 year old child into the hostel, where adults are …, it has a psyche.
The age limit that was brought in is a needless debate, because a serious government, a serious country knows that this is too important to be ignored. Because of the fact that some people took it personal, because those who want to bulldoze their way, because they have parents now who; I don’t know what to say. It is just unfortunate, but age limit to regulation in education is very important.
Qtn: Up till now, the HND holders are seen to be inferior to their first degree counterparts and the holders of the HND don’t want to hear or see this. What do you think should be done in that regard.
Ans: It is a needless debate and irresponsible approach to solving the matter, because first of all, each of them has a role to play in Nigeria’s economy. There were reasons for the creation of the college of education, polytechnic and university. Why the same government that created them to serve a purpose, come to discriminate against the other is what I can’t understand.
This matter was supposed to be resolved long ago, and there are 1001ways it can be resolved, but demeaning one against the other isn’t acceptable, because we are discouraging our children from going to the polytechnics. I knew civil engineers, mechanical who came from the polytechnics and they were fantastic and contributed immediately to the development of this country.
Qtn: Would you say that National Open University of Nigeria (NOUN) and the conventional universities are at par?
Ans: They are at par, but it depends on management. NOUN is a very good national policy education. We are all having our challenges. There are those who don’t have time to go to the conventional universities. There are those who are meant to go to conventional universities and there are those who are surviving, doing some certain works and the NOUN is useful for them.
Qtn: Talking about financial autonomy of federal universities, some are afraid that if done, the poor masses can’t afford it, while others think contrary, what is you take?
Ans: I think that our leaders need some inoculations to understand, because if anybody from anywhere disallows you from education, he or she has thwarted half of your dream. The policy in education should encourage majority. Most of our past leaders like Obasanjo and others, if they had made education costly, they couldn’t have become president as they were.
Qtn: Do you think that stopping diploma courses in the University of Abuja is a wise thing to do?
Ans: Everything has time, because there are things that were acceptable yesterday, that are not acceptable today. If they have over lived their usefulness and policy comes and they are well thought out, I don’t have problem with that.
Qtn: What is the latest on the Integrated Payroll and Personnel Information System (IPPIS) saga in the universities?
Ans: That one has been resolved, because the government has taken decision to remove us from the criminal IPPIS; the most criminal thing that has happened to the university education and those who did it, we have forgiven them, because they don’t want to stand the university system. May be they didn’t pass through the university system. And those who supported it knew why they did so, because it was against the structure of the university system.
Qtn Having contributed immensely in training lawyer, among who are judges, private legal practitioners, would you say that what you lectured them in the university is what they are practicing in the judiciary and court?
Ans: Well, I have no means of following my students to see what they are doing, but I think that I didn’t only teach law, but also moral character to the best of my ability. But those who want to go astray, it is up to them.
Prof. Waziri
